Legislature(2001 - 2002)

04/05/2001 01:10 PM House TRA

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
            HOUSE TRANSPORTATION STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                           
                         April 5, 2001                                                                                          
                           1:10 p.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Vic Kohring, Chair                                                                                               
Representative Beverly Masek, Vice Chair                                                                                        
Representative Drew Scalzi                                                                                                      
Representative Peggy Wilson                                                                                                     
Representative Albert Kookesh                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative Scott Ogan                                                                                                       
Representative Mary Kapsner                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE WORK SESSION ON CRUISE SHIP DISCHARGES                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS ACTION                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
No previous action to record                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MIKE KRIEBER, Staff                                                                                                             
to Representative Kohring                                                                                                       
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Capitol Building, Room 24                                                                                                       
Juneau, Alaska 99801                                                                                                            
POSITION STATEMENT:  Presented an overview of the issue of                                                                      
cruise ship discharges.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MICHAEL CONWAY, Director                                                                                                        
Division of Statewide Public Service                                                                                            
Department of Environmental Conservation;                                                                                       
Coordinator, Alaska Cruise Ship Initiative                                                                                      
410 Willoughby Suite 105                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska 99801-1795                                                                                                       
POSITION STATEMENT:                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
COMMANDER BOYCE BINGHAM                                                                                                         
U.S. Coast Guard - Juneau                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
POSITION STATEMENT:   Discussed the U.S. Coast  Guard's role with                                                               
cruise ship discharges.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
STEVE TOROK                                                                                                                     
Environmental Protection Agency                                                                                                 
410 Willoughby Avenue, Suite 100                                                                                                
Juneau, Alaska 99801                                                                                                            
POSITION STATEMENT:                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 01-26, SIDE A                                                                                                              
Number 0001                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  VIC  KOHRING  called  the  House  Transportation  Standing                                                               
Committee  meeting  to  order  at   1:10  p.m.    Representatives                                                               
Kohring, Masek, Scalzi,  and Kookesh were present at  the call to                                                               
order.   Representative  Wilson  arrived as  the  meeting was  in                                                               
progress.  Representative Kerttula was also in attendance.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE WORK SESSION ON CRUISE SHIP DISCHARGES                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                              
CHAIR  KOHRING announced  that the  committee  would discuss  the                                                               
issue  of the  cruise ship  discharges.   He explained  that this                                                               
hearing would  provide information to committee  members prior to                                                               
the  hearing of  Representative  Kerttula's  legislation.   [This                                                               
meeting]  will cover  the history  and the  status of  the cruise                                                               
ship industry as well as  the government's efforts with regard to                                                               
discharges and pollutants  in Alaskan waters.   The other purpose                                                               
of  this work  session is  to become  familiar with  U.S. Senator                                                               
Murkowski's  recently passed  legislation  that addresses  cruise                                                               
ship discharges.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 0234                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MIKE  KRIEBER,  Staff  to Representative  Kohring,  Alaska  State                                                               
Legislature,   informed   the   committee   that   Representative                                                               
Kerttula's bill is  HB 22, the governor's bill is  HB 183 and its                                                               
companion bill  is HB 134.   Also Senator Halford's bill,  SB 18,                                                               
addresses  many of  these  concerns.   However,  he echoed  Chair                                                               
Kohring's statement  that this  meeting will  not discuss  any of                                                               
the pending  state legislation.   On the other hand,  Mr. Krieber                                                               
announced  that  he  would  discuss  the  committee  packet  that                                                               
includes some history and current reports regarding this issue.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. KRIEBER  began by  informing the  committee that  in December                                                               
1999,   the  Department   of  Environmental   Conservation  (DEC)                                                               
convened  a forum  that addressed  the concerns  with the  cruise                                                               
ship  industry.   There  was particular  concern  with regard  to                                                               
wastewater  discharges  as  well  as  smoke.    [There  was  also                                                               
concern/discussion] regarding  "doughnut holes," which  are areas                                                               
in  which cruise  ships could  legally discharge  untreated waste                                                               
into  the water  without having  to meet  any treatment  criteria                                                               
because of the area's distance from Alaskan waters.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Number 0437                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  KRIEBER directed  the committee's  attention to  A-1 in  the                                                               
committee packet, which  lists 34 questions and  issues that were                                                               
discussed  at the  December 1999  forum  sponsored by  DEC.   The                                                               
categories  of  those items  were  as  follows:   air  emissions,                                                               
wastewater  discharges,  solid  and  hazardous  waste  management                                                               
disposal, and oil  spill preparedness.  The result  of that forum                                                               
was  the  formation of  the  following  four  work groups:    Air                                                               
Quality Management, Oil Pollution  Response, Wastewater and Solid                                                               
Waste,  and Environmental  Leadership.   Mr. Krieber  pointed out                                                               
that  the  committee  packet  includes  the  websites  for  those                                                               
particular groups, which can be found  in A-1 through A-5.  There                                                               
is  further detail  at the  DEC website  and thus  he recommended                                                               
that the committee review that information.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  KRIEBER identified  the following  specific mandates  of the                                                               
work groups:  to identify the  waste streams and spill risks that                                                               
could  impact  Alaska's  air  and  water  resources;  to  develop                                                               
pollution prevention  and waste  management solutions  that would                                                               
eliminate  or   reduce  impacts,  including   better  technology,                                                               
management  practices, and  shoreside  capacity;  to access  what                                                               
process is needed  to verify and monitor compliance;  and to keep                                                               
Alaskans informed.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 0564                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. KRIEBER  informed the committee  that in May 2000  the Cruise                                                               
Ship  Initiative  produced their  Part  1  report.   That  report                                                               
[recommended] the  development of a  plan for random  third party                                                               
wastewater sampling  of all  cruise ships,  the development  of a                                                               
plan for  air monitoring  in downtown Juneau,  the survey  of the                                                               
waste stream  discharges and solid  waste handling  practices for                                                               
all  cruise  ships, the  identification  of  proposals and  pilot                                                               
projects from the cruise ship industry  for a number of these new                                                               
technologies, and  approved maintenance  and operation  plans for                                                               
the oil  spill response activities.   He recalled that  the first                                                               
bill  heard in  the House  Transportation Standing  Committee was                                                               
the Oil Spill Prevention &  Response legislation, HB 55, that has                                                               
already been  signed into law.   Therefore, that work  group will                                                               
not be discussed today.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. KRIEBER turned  to the Air Quality Work  Group, which oversaw                                                               
the  air  monitoring program  that  was  conducted last  year  in                                                               
downtown Juneau.   Three locations were selected.   The dock area                                                               
monitoring was actually below what  would have received the smoke                                                               
stack discharges.   He referred  to the  dock area sampling  as a                                                               
"background  sample"  [that  includes]   the  combustion  of  the                                                               
vehicles  in   town,  heating  systems,   et  cetera.     Another                                                               
monitoring  area  was by  the  Baranof  Hotel, which  is  located                                                               
uphill and thus  would catch some of the smoke  stack plume.  The                                                               
Capital School  area was  also monitored.   All three  sites were                                                               
tested  for very  fine particulates,  2.5 micron  size pieces  of                                                               
stuff in  the air.   That is a  potential health concern  when it                                                               
enters the lungs.  There was  also testing for sulfur dioxide and                                                               
oxide  to  nitrogen that  are  by-products  of combustion.    The                                                               
highest  recorded levels  from any  of  these monitoring  efforts                                                               
were significantly below any of  the health standards established                                                               
by  federal   and  state  agencies.     The  Air   Quality  group                                                               
recommended  continued monitoring  during  the  2001 cruise  ship                                                               
season  in  order  to  ensure that  there  weren't  any  abnormal                                                               
situations that  would have prohibited detection.   For instance,                                                               
the sampling  was performed  during the wet  part of  the season.                                                               
Therefore,  the Air  Quality  Work Group  wanted  to obtain  some                                                               
sampling during the early part of  the summer when there isn't as                                                               
much  moisture   in  the   air,  which   reduces  the   count  of                                                               
particulates and other potential contaminants.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. KRIEBER continued  with the second concern  with air quality,                                                               
which  is  the  smoke  or   rather,  opacity.    Opacity  is  the                                                               
"blackness"  of the  smoke.    He explained  that  a good  engine                                                               
burning good  fuel will  have cleaner  smoke whereas  black smoke                                                               
would be  produced by  an engine that  is burning  lesser quality                                                               
fuel or the improper fuel for  that engine.  The department had a                                                               
long-term  program  to  measure  opacity, but  that  program  was                                                               
dropped  in  1997  due  to  budget  constraints.    However,  the                                                               
Environmental   Protection   Agency   (EPA)   started   and   DEC                                                               
participated in [taking] opacity readings  a couple of years ago.                                                               
Approximately 50 percent of the  readings taken were in violation                                                               
of standards  and both the  federal and state  governments issued                                                               
citations.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 0821                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  KRIEBER   explained  that  the  cruise   ship  industry  has                                                               
responded   to  these   problems   with   new  technologies   and                                                               
alternative  ways  of  generating  power  while  in  port.    For                                                               
instance, Princess  Cruise expects  to be  able to  use shoreside                                                               
power  instead  of  running  the  main  engines  when  docked  in                                                               
[Juneau].   The Royal Caribbean  and Celebrity Cruise  Lines will                                                               
each  have a  gas  turbine cruise  ship coming  to  Alaska.   Gas                                                               
engines burn  fuel with  less visible  emissions.   Also Carnival                                                               
Cruise   Lines  will   have   a  cruise   ship   that  will   use                                                               
electronically controlled fuel  injection.  Furthermore, numerous                                                               
retrofits are being  made on direct steam injection  and lube oil                                                               
consumption monitoring  both of which  have been shown  to reduce                                                               
emissions up  to 40 percent.   Mr. Krieber clarified that  he was                                                               
reading  from  a  DEC  draft   report,  the  Alaska  Cruise  Ship                                                               
Initiative Part  2 report, that  will be finalized  and presented                                                               
tomorrow.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 0889                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MICHAEL CONWAY, Director, Division of Statewide Public Service                                                                  
Department  of  Environmental Conservation;  Coordinator,  Alaska                                                               
Cruise Ship  Initiative explained  that tomorrow comments  a will                                                               
be taken and he imagined those  would be available in a couple of                                                               
weeks.  In response to Mr.  Krieber, Mr. Conway affirmed that the                                                               
draft report  is on the website  now.  The draft  report won't be                                                               
changed  until all  the comments  are received,  after which  the                                                               
finalized version will be available on the website.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR.  KRIEBER  continued  with  the  Wastewater  and  Solid  Waste                                                               
Management Work Group that is found  on page A-4 in the committee                                                               
packet.   The  primary concern  for that  group is  in regard  to                                                               
wastewater because  there haven't  been too many  concerns raised                                                               
by communities  regarding the improper  disposal of  solid waste.                                                               
Therefore, Mr. Krieber  turned to wastewater.   He explained that                                                               
ballast water is discharged when a  vessel takes on fuel; that is                                                               
done  stateside  [and  thus]  there are  no  indications  of  any                                                               
discharges  of  ballast water  here  in  Alaska to  be  concerned                                                               
about.   Therefore, the  wastewater being  focused on  is sewage.                                                               
There are two  types of [sewage]:  graywater and  blackwater.  He                                                               
explained  that  blackwater  primarily comes  from  toilet  waste                                                               
while   graywater   comes   from   sink   water,   laundry,   and                                                               
miscellaneous  uses of  water.   Many people  don't realize  that                                                               
graywater  can  be  quite polluted.    However,  DEC  regulations                                                               
define graywater  and blackwater as  the same because  both carry                                                               
fecal coliform bacteria  as well as other  pollutants.  Graywater                                                               
includes  other types  of pollutants  that make  treatment a  bit                                                               
more difficult than treatment for direct blackwater.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR.  KRIEBER pointed  out that  since the  1970s there  have been                                                               
some   minimum  treatment   levels  of   blackwater  for   marine                                                               
sanitation devices.   However, last  year the  monitoring program                                                               
highlighted  that the  marine sanitation  devices  aren't "up  to                                                               
snuff."   Furthermore, it was  discovered that the  graywater had                                                               
high levels  of contamination.   Therefore, these issues  need to                                                               
be  addressed.   Mr.  Krieber  informed  the committee  that  the                                                               
cruise ship industry has come  forward with new treatment systems                                                               
and innovative  technologies that  appear to  be promising.   The                                                               
industry has done some testing  on some initial systems that have                                                               
reported  very   low  levels  of  bacterial   discharge.    These                                                               
[systems]  are  using  chlorination  techniques  and  ultraviolet                                                               
disinfection as well as some filtration technology.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. KRIEBER  informed the committee  that the  wastewater streams                                                               
were  also tested  for toxic  hazardous compounds.   The  Phase 2                                                               
report  contains   a  fairly   comprehensive  table   of  various                                                               
compounds for which  they tested.  For the most  part, there were                                                               
no  signs of  hazardous  waste being  mixed  with the  wastewater                                                               
streams.   However,  he  emphasized that  he  wasn't saying  that                                                               
there aren't chemicals in the  wastewater streams that need to be                                                               
addressed.   He  pointed out  that some  of the  testing protocol                                                               
that  has been  recommended for  the  next year  will attempt  to                                                               
identify [the  chemicals in the  wastewater streams]  through the                                                               
analytical  process.   He  cited  dissolved  metals versus  total                                                               
metals  as an  example and  explained that  dissolved metals  are                                                               
viewed as  being more easily taken  in by an organism.   However,                                                               
total metals aren't viewed as a carcinogen or toxic material.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 1129                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. KRIEBER also informed the  committee that all 21 large cruise                                                               
ships were  sampled for these  priority pollutants  for hazardous                                                               
waste.  He reiterated that  the primary concern of the wastewater                                                               
discharges  is  related  to  what  is  typically  thought  of  as                                                               
contaminants from  blackwater, although graywater  includes those                                                               
contaminants as  well.  These contaminants  are things such    as                                                               
fecal coliform,  total suspended  solids, and  biochemical oxygen                                                               
demand.   He  explained  that biochemical  oxygen  demand is  the                                                               
discharge of an organic substance  that will take oxygen from the                                                               
water, which is of high  concern when dealing with very sensitive                                                               
environments.  He identified other  contaminants such as ammonia,                                                               
pH, and  chlorine.  He  reiterated that there are  no indications                                                               
of  any  hazardous substances  being  mixed  with the  wastewater                                                               
stream.  However, the report does  discuss a couple of the sample                                                               
results  that were  reported as  hazardous  chemicals, but  those                                                               
were  determined  to be  lab  cross-contamination.   Mr.  Krieber                                                               
turned  to   federal  regulations  and  pointed   out  that  only                                                               
blackwater  discharge   is  regulated,  that  is   in  regard  to                                                               
discharge limits.   If  graywater is  mixed with  the blackwater,                                                               
then it  is viewed  as blackwater  and thus  subject to  the same                                                               
regulatory requirements.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 1224                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. KRIEBER continued  by informing the committee  that last year                                                               
the  cruise   lines  volunteered   to  eliminate   their  in-port                                                               
discharges and  to discharge at a  distance of at least  10 miles                                                               
from  the  port  of  call  or  departure.    He  reiterated  that                                                               
graywater is  of concern because  it contains chemicals  that are                                                               
detrimental to the environment.   Therefore, the cruise lines and                                                               
proposed  legislation   are  addressing   graywater.     He  also                                                               
reiterated that the  cruise line industry is looking  at some new                                                               
technologies and the industry has  done some initial installation                                                               
and testing  with some of  this technology.  That  information is                                                               
detailed in the Phase 2 report.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 1330                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. KRIEBER  turned to the  Environmental Leadership  Work Group,                                                               
which is  looking for innovative  ways to prevent pollution.   He                                                               
likened  this  work  group  to  the  Green  Star  program,  which                                                               
performs  the   aforementioned  as   well  as  outreach   to  the                                                               
communities, individuals,  and businesses outside their  group in                                                               
an  attempt  to  avoid  the  use of  hazardous  materials.    The                                                               
information on  that is  contained on page  A-5 of  the committee                                                               
packet.    He  pointed  out  that the  information  on  page  A-5                                                               
illustrates the  spectrum of the  groups involved with  this work                                                               
group.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 1390                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  KRIEBER then  addressed the  federal legislation,  B in  the                                                               
committee packet, that was passed  and signed by former President                                                               
Clinton in December 2000.  He  said that the U.S. Coast Guard and                                                               
the EPA will  address what they see as their  respective roles in                                                               
promulgating regulations  and enforcing these federal  codes.  He                                                               
pointed out that the committee  packet, C-1 through C-3, includes                                                               
some  EPA documents  regarding what  they are  doing locally  and                                                               
nationally.   There  is a  summary of  a September  2000 workshop                                                               
here in Juneau.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 1462                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
COMMANDER  BOYCE BINGHAM,  U.S. Coast  Guard -  Juneau, began  by                                                               
saying  that  much  has  been  accomplished  in  the  partnership                                                               
between the state  and federal governments as well  as the cruise                                                               
ship industry and the community.   He said, "I think it's safe to                                                               
say that  the water of  Alaska will be  less impacted in  2001 by                                                               
the cruise  industry than they  were before, much because  of the                                                               
joint  efforts."    Commander  Bingham   turned  to  the  federal                                                               
legislation  and  noted  that  the  legislation  directs  several                                                               
issues at the  U.S. Coast Guard while others are  directed to the                                                               
EPA.  For  the portion concerning the U.S. Coast  Guard, the U.S.                                                               
Coast Guard  has drafted regulations  and is  awaiting signatures                                                               
in the  Department of Transportation.   He specified  that [these                                                               
regulations]  are in  the  form  of a  notice  of proposed  rule-                                                               
making.   Initially,  there was  review of  an interim  rule that                                                               
would   have  allowed   the  regulations   to   go  into   effect                                                               
immediately.     However,  there   were  some  concerns   at  the                                                               
department  level regarding  the fact  that this  was not  urgent                                                               
enough  in   nature  to  bypass   the  public   comment  process.                                                               
Therefore, when the  notice of proposal comes out,  there will be                                                               
a 30-day comment period after  which the comments will addressed.                                                               
Once those  comments are satisfactorily  addressed, a  final rule                                                               
will be  issued.  Commander  Bingham informed the  committee that                                                               
he anticipates  that those regulations  will be in place  at some                                                               
point during this cruise season.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
COMMANDER  BINGHAM informed  the committee  that he  had been  in                                                               
contact with  the cruise  ship industry, which  has said  that it                                                               
will  continue with  its efforts  in the  voluntary sampling  and                                                               
testing  program that  was in  place last  year.   Therefore, the                                                               
U.S.  Coast Guard  will continue  to oversee  that process.   The                                                               
[federal  legislation] also  contains several  portions that  are                                                               
self-executing.   He identified those self-executing  portions as                                                               
follows:    Section  1403,  which   prohibits  the  discharge  of                                                               
untreated sewage  into Alaskan  waters; Section  1404(a), Section                                                               
1404 (c)  and Section  1407, which  describes the  standards that                                                               
have to be met.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
COMMANDER   BINGHAM,  in   response  to   Representative  Scalzi,                                                               
reiterated that  the standards  are included  in Section  1407 of                                                               
U.S.   Senator  Murkowski's   legislation.     Commander  Bingham                                                               
confirmed that the  standard is a fecal  coliform bacterial count                                                               
of  less than  200 [colonies]  per 100  milliliters or  suspended                                                               
solids  less than  150 milligrams  per  liter.   The other  self-                                                               
executing portion  would allow a  vessel proceeding at  more than                                                               
six knots  from a  location more  than a mile  from the  shore to                                                               
discharge treated sewage.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 1698                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SCALZI  turned  to  the purpose  of  the  federal                                                               
legislation and  remarked that the  language isn't  very specific                                                               
in that  it only  refers to  the navigable  waters of  the United                                                               
States  [within the  State  of Alaska]  except  for the  specific                                                               
references  to   Alexander  Archipelago  and  the   Kachemak  Bay                                                               
National  Estuarine  Research  Reserve.    Representative  Scalzi                                                               
asked, "Is there other areas of  the country that the Senator did                                                               
not want to include at this time?"                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
COMMANDER  BINGHAM   answered  that  he  didn't   know  what  the                                                               
intention was  at the  federal level.   However,  this [language]                                                               
covers  all of  Alaska's waters,  which is  out three  miles, and                                                               
basically  closes  the  doughnut  holes of  the  Inside  Passage.                                                               
Commander Bingham pointed  out that in Alaska when  a cruise ship                                                               
enters Alaska's  waters, it does  so for  several days at  a time                                                               
whereas the  cruise ships  in the Lower  48 merely  disembark and                                                               
embark   passengers   and   return   to   international   waters.                                                               
Therefore, the time  a cruise ship remains in a  body of water in                                                               
Alaska is different [than the time it spends in the Lower 48].                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 1775                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR KOHRING asked  if Commander Bingham had  any information in                                                               
regard to  the number and  size of  the cruise ship  vessels that                                                               
have been experienced  in Alaska.   He inquired  as to the growth                                                               
of the cruise ship industry over the last decade.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
COMMANDER BINGHAM deferred to the  cruise ship industry, although                                                               
he  recalled  that this  season  23  vessels  intend to  call  on                                                               
Alaska.  In further response  to Chair Kohring, Commander Bingham                                                               
said  that  the  U.S.  Coast  Guard  is  encouraged  by  the  new                                                               
wastewater systems  that the cruise  ship industry  is reviewing.                                                               
He said that he has the  impression that the cruise ship industry                                                               
is  fully committed  to reviewing  all available  technologies in                                                               
order to find  a technology that would process sewage  and fit on                                                               
the  vessel  itself.    The  [cruise  ship  industry]  is  making                                                               
progress  and he  estimated that  it would  only be  a few  years                                                               
before this goal is achieved.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 1861                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  WILSON  asked  if   the  U.S.  Coast  Guard  will                                                               
actively  stop  vessels and  check  these  [discharges] once  the                                                               
[regulations] are in place.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
COMMANDER BINGHAM  explained that  the draft  regulations provide                                                               
for  the following:    testing  within 30  days  of the  vessel's                                                               
arrival  in Alaska's  waters; testing  of the  blackwater; random                                                               
testing  of the  graywater for  priority pollutants;  and ongoing                                                               
testing throughout the season.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SCALZI asked if  the federal legislation addresses                                                               
any air quality standards.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
COMMANDER BINGHAM  answered that  air quality isn't  addressed by                                                               
U.S. Senator Murkowski's legislation.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 1932                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR KOHRING inquired  as to Commander Bingham's  opinion of the                                                               
draft regulations.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
COMMANDER  BINGHAM   explained  that  U.S.   Senator  Murkowski's                                                               
legislation  provides  direction  for  the U.S.  Coast  Guard  in                                                               
regard  to the  areas  to  focus on  in  creating regulations  to                                                               
implement the  will of the  Congress and ultimately, the  will of                                                               
the people.   Commander Bingham, a co-writer  of the regulations,                                                               
felt  that the  regulations  are comprehensive  and were  written                                                               
with  foresight  in  regard  to  allowing  new  technology  while                                                               
addressing the concerns of the Congress.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 1984                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KOOKESH remarked that  most federal standards that                                                               
he  has  seen  aren't  the   strictest  but  rather  are  minimal                                                               
standards.   Therefore, he  asked if the  U.S. Coast  Guard would                                                               
review the  state's standards, especially  if those  are stricter                                                               
than the federal standards.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
COMMANDER BINGHAM  agreed that [the  state's standards]  would be                                                               
reviewed.     He  also  noted   that  U.S.   Senator  Murkowski's                                                               
legislation  contains a  stricter standard  with regard  to fecal                                                               
coliform counts than that contained in the EPA standards.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KOOKESH  emphasized  that   he  was  speaking  in                                                               
general that  the federal standards  are minimal.   Therefore, he                                                               
didn't want  to give the  impression that the  federal regulation                                                               
should be accepted as the regulation  to live by.  He pointed out                                                               
that he lives  in a village where the cruise  ships pass and thus                                                               
the villages  aren't impacted  by their  dollar.   Therefore, his                                                               
concern is in  making standards that are sufficient so  as to not                                                               
impact "us as a people."                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
COMMANDER BINGHAM said that he,  as a fellow Alaskan, shared that                                                               
concern.    He noted  that  it  would  be  helpful to  have  some                                                               
analysis regarding the impact of  200 fecal coliform on 150 total                                                               
suspended solids (TSS) on the water.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KOOKESH said that is  his point exactly because no                                                               
matter where the standards are set,  they may not be good enough.                                                               
Therefore, he wanted  to ensure that there is room  to change the                                                               
standards later, if necessary.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
COMMANDER BINGHAM pointed out that  the standards in U.S. Senator                                                               
Murkowski's legislation are interim  standards that allow for the                                                               
EPA to review that and possibly develop different standards.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 2137                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
STEVE TOROK, Environmental Protection  Agency, began by providing                                                               
the committee  with an overview  of the EPA's  activities related                                                               
to the  cruise ship issues.   He informed the committee  that the                                                               
EPA has been  involved with the Department of  Justice in various                                                               
investigations over  the past several  years.  In March  2000 the                                                               
EPA received a petition from the  Blue Water Network that was co-                                                               
signed  by  53  other   environmental  organizations  across  the                                                               
country.    The  petition  requested  that  the  EPA  conduct  an                                                               
assessment and investigation of the  cruise ship industry and the                                                               
discharges and pollution  coming from the cruise ships.   The EPA                                                               
agreed to do  such an assessment.  Prior to  that, the EPA joined                                                               
the Alaska Department of Environmental  Conservation and the U.S.                                                               
Coast  Guard   in  participating   in  the  Alaska   Clean  Water                                                               
Initiative.   He remarked that  the EPA views the  assessment and                                                               
the initiative as complimentary activities not duplicative.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. TOROK said that work  has continued with regard to collecting                                                               
information and the  EPA has relied heavily on  the Alaska Cruise                                                               
Ship Initiative, which  has been very valuable.   Originally, the                                                               
EPA intended to  have a draft report available in  the late Fall,                                                               
but  that has  been delayed.   However,  he anticipated  that the                                                               
draft report  will receive  public notice  in a  few weeks.   Mr.                                                               
Torok returned to the petition,  which specifically requested the                                                               
identification of  various wastewater streams, the  assessment of                                                               
the  impacts of  those streams  and the  quantity and  quality of                                                               
those discharges as  well as the treatment  technologies that are                                                               
currently being  used.   The EPA  has attempted to  do that.   He                                                               
pointed out  that [the EPA] has  much more knowledge now  than it                                                               
did  two  years  ago  thanks   to  the  Clean  Water  Initiative.                                                               
However,  he acknowledged  that  "we" don't  know enough  because                                                               
there  is still  much  information to  be gathered,  specifically                                                               
ship by ship in regard to  the quantities of discharges from each                                                               
ship,  the quality  of the  discharges  from each  ship, and  the                                                               
[routes] of the various wastewater streams within the ship.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 2279                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  TOROK  commended  the  participation   of  the  cruise  ship                                                               
industry  as  well as  their  efforts  in relation  to  advancing                                                               
technology.  He noted [the  EPA's] support of the industry's goal                                                               
of having  no pollutant  discharge.   He acknowledged  that these                                                               
ships are  getting larger.   In response to the  earlier question                                                               
regarding the  growth of the  industry, Mr. Torok  estimated that                                                               
there  has  been an  increase  from  about  350,000 in  crew  and                                                               
passengers  in 1990  to about  1 million  in crew  and passengers                                                               
last year.   He said, "A million people on  these ships for about                                                               
... five to seven days generating the  waste.  So, it is an issue                                                               
that  deserves attention."    He pointed  out  that U.S.  Senator                                                               
Murkowski's legislation does authorize EPA  to work with the U.S.                                                               
Coast Guard in  the implementation of Title  14, specifically the                                                               
legislation authorizes  the EPA  to establish  affluent standards                                                               
for  both  blackwater  and  graywater.     The  legislation  also                                                               
reinforces the  EPA's authority  to grant  no discharge  zones as                                                               
requested  by  the governor.    Therefore,  there are  provisions                                                               
under  the Clean  Water Act  and under  Title 14  that provide  a                                                               
mechanism  for the  governor and  the state  to declare  areas no                                                               
discharge zones.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. TOROK  announced that  the EPA's  draft assessment  on cruise                                                               
ship  discharges will  address the  EPA's recommended  intentions                                                               
with regard to Title 14.   Specifically, [the draft] will address                                                               
whether the EPA will or will  not pursue affluent standards.  The                                                               
draft will  also lay out  a series of recommendations  for public                                                               
review  and comment  with regard  to  other actions  that can  be                                                               
taken by the EPA with  regard to enforcement and redefinitions of                                                               
blackwater under the current Clean Water  Act.  To this stage, it                                                               
has been  accepted that  cruise ship  discharges are  exempt from                                                               
the  National  Pollutant  Discharge  Elimination  System  (NPDES)                                                               
permit program.   Within the petition of the  Blue Water Network,                                                               
there was the  request to reevaluate that  exemption and consider                                                               
bringing  cruise  ship  discharges  under  NPDES  for  permitting                                                               
purposes.  He explained that the  advantage of a permit system is                                                               
that it  requires the discharger  to monitor and thus  sample the                                                               
discharges  regularly   and  to  report  those   sample  results.                                                               
Therefore, "we"  begin to learn  what is discharged and  how much                                                               
is being discharged.  Currently, that is unknown.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 2435                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON  inquired as to  why the cruise  ships were                                                               
exempt from the NPDES permit program.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. TOROK explained  that this goes back to the  early 1970s.  He                                                               
noted that  he could speak to  what the EPA was  thinking at that                                                               
time because he was  with the EPA.  In the  early 1970s the NPDES                                                               
permit program was just beginning.  There were a number of ...                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 01-26, SIDE B                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. TOROK  said, "... that  had a wastewater discharge  and [had]                                                               
previously  been  unregulated  from  a  permitting  perspective."                                                               
Through  the Clean  Water Act  in the  early 1970s,  the EPA  was                                                               
given  the authority  to establish  a permit  system.   [The EPA]                                                               
recognized  that  it  could  not  require  and  establish  permit                                                               
parameters  and  write  permits   for  every  discharger  in  the                                                               
country.   Therefore, a "pecking  order" was established  and the                                                               
worst polluters were  addressed first.  At  that time, discharges                                                               
from ships weren't considered to be  a large threat and thus they                                                               
were placed lower  on the list.   In order to relieve  the EPA of                                                               
its legal  and regulatory  burden of  having those  ships operate                                                               
without  a  permit, those  ships  were  exempted from  the  NPDES                                                               
permit program.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 2415                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  WILSON inquired  as  to the  increase Alaska  has                                                               
experienced with the cruise ship industry since that time.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. TOROK  replied, "Tremendous."   The  cruise ship  industry of                                                               
today is  much different  than the industry  that existed  in the                                                               
1970s.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KOOKESH asked  if the EPA works with  the State of                                                               
Alaska  in regulating  other  industries in  Alaska  such as  the                                                               
mining, timber, or fishing industry.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. TOROK  replied, "Yes."   He  explained that  NPDES permitting                                                               
system hasn't been delegated to the  State of Alaska and thus the                                                               
EPA  retains  the  authority  to issue  permits  to  those  large                                                               
industries.   The State  of Alaska is  required to  certify those                                                               
permits.  The  EPA relies on the state to  ensure that the permit                                                               
that is  being written  for that facility  will meet  state water                                                               
quality  standards.    In   further  response  to  Representative                                                               
Kookesh, Mr.  Torok agreed that  there are state statutes  in the                                                               
aforementioned  three  industries  with  which  the  EPA  already                                                               
works.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 2354                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KOOKESH  identified the cruise ship  industry as a                                                               
new  industry  for  which  there   are  no  regulatory  statutes.                                                               
Therefore,  he  surmised  that  it would  be  "natural"  for  the                                                               
[state] to  be considering cruise  ship laws in  Alaska Statutes,                                                               
statutes similar  to those used  for timber, mining,  and fishing                                                               
industries.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  KOHRING  inquired  as to  Mr.  Torok's  opinion  regarding                                                               
whether  the cruise  ship industry's  efforts are  moving in  the                                                               
correct direction.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR.  TOROK  answered  that  he  believes  that  the  cruise  ship                                                               
industry  has given  every indication  that it  is moving  in the                                                               
correct  direction   and  exploring   newer  technologies.     He                                                               
reiterated  the  cruise  ship   industry's  stated  goal  of  "no                                                               
pollutant  discharge" and  having  the ability  to recycle  water                                                               
onboard  and reuse  that water.    Mr. Torok  commented that  the                                                               
cruise ship industry  is in the best position to  do this because                                                               
they have 100 percent control over  what happens on the ship.  On                                                               
the other hand, a local  sewage treatment plant doesn't have that                                                               
advantage  because  that plant  has  to  deal with  whatever  the                                                               
public has  put down the  drain; it  is much more  complicated to                                                               
deal with [pollutants at the  end point rather than the insertion                                                               
point].                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 2274                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KOOKESH   related  his  belief  that   this  work                                                               
shouldn't be viewed as the standard  but rather the work with the                                                               
industry should  be ongoing and  has to be within  the parameters                                                               
that  Alaskans feel  comfortable.   While Representative  Kookesh                                                               
noted his  appreciation of  the cruise  ship industry's  work and                                                               
innovation,  he  reemphasized  his  belief that  it  is  not  the                                                               
standard.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR.  TOROK informed  the committee  that the  Blue Water  Network                                                               
modified its petition  to the EPA in June to  include air quality                                                               
emissions.   He also informed  the committee of the  EPA's fairly                                                               
extensive public participation program  and consultation with the                                                               
tribes, which the EPA will continue  to do as the draft report is                                                               
released.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. KRIEBER  summarized that  today's discussion  has highlighted                                                               
some  concerns raised  regarding the  discharges from  the cruise                                                               
ships.    The committee  has  also  heard  that the  cruise  ship                                                               
industry  is  addressing  some new  technologies.    Furthermore,                                                               
there is  pending federal legislation.   Mr. Krieber  indicated a                                                               
commitment  to hear  Representative  Kerttula's bill,  HB 22,  on                                                               
April 19  as well  as hearing the  governor's bill  the following                                                               
week.  Mr. Krieber reminded  everyone that DEC's website houses a                                                               
lot of  information.   He then requested  that Mr.  Conway inform                                                               
the committee of the Cruise  Ship Initiative Steering Committee's                                                               
agenda for tomorrow.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 2150                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. CONWAY  affirmed that tomorrow  is the Spring meeting  of the                                                               
Alaska Cruise Ship Initiative Steering  Committee.  He noted that                                                               
Michele Brown, Commissioner, DEC;  Admiral Barrett; the President                                                               
of  the  North  West  Cruise Ship  Association;  Acting  Regional                                                               
Administrator  of the  EPA; Lauren  Gerhard, Executive  Director,                                                               
Southeast Conference will be in  attendance.  This group has been                                                               
working since last summer in  order to compile the information of                                                               
the  results obtained  through the  Cruise Ship  Initiative work,                                                               
which will be the first item of  business.  The Phase 2 report is                                                               
on  the web  and  thus it  is the  opportunity  for the  steering                                                               
committee to  review it, provide  feedback, and wrap up  the 2000                                                               
season.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. CONWAY informed  the committee that the  volunteer efforts to                                                               
review the  results of last  summer have [recommended]  work that                                                               
needs to be performed for the  following cruise ship season.  Mr.                                                               
Rogers,  DEC,  has  spearheaded  the efforts  on  air  and  water                                                               
quality.   There is  a plan to  do work this  summer in  order to                                                               
follow-up on issues that were identified  last season.  This is a                                                               
comprehensive group of individuals,  who will present an overview                                                               
of their plan for this coming  season.  The U.S. Coast Guard will                                                               
present  its plan  for implementing  the federal  legislation for                                                               
this summer.   The  final item  on the agenda  is to  discuss the                                                               
pending cruise ship legislation.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR.  CONWAY emphasized  that the  steering committee  is a  high-                                                               
level  group that  can provide  checks and  balances and  provide                                                               
direction to  the work group  efforts.  The meeting  is scheduled                                                               
from 10:00  a.m. to 12:30  p.m. in the  DEC conference room.   He                                                               
noted that the meeting will be teleconferenced.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 1993                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KOOKESH commented that  he wasn't too enthusiastic                                                               
about  this work  session; however,  now he  appreciates it.   He                                                               
noted    his   appreciation    of   the    committee   scheduling                                                               
Representative Kerttula's  bill and  the governor's  bill because                                                               
he  would  rather have  the  Alaska  State Legislature  determine                                                               
where   the   cruise   ship  industry   is   going   in   Alaska.                                                               
Representative Kookesh  thanked the representatives from  the EPA                                                               
and the U.S. Coast Guard.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR   KOHRING  noted   his  appreciation   for  all   those  in                                                               
attendance.   He  said, "We  are  not here  to 'beat  up' on  the                                                               
cruise ship industry.  I want  to recognize there are good things                                                               
that you  bring to the state  of Alaska.  You  really bolster our                                                               
economy wonderfully."   He noted the need to be  cognizant of the                                                               
cruise ship industry's concerns with the pending legislation.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There being no  further business before the  committee, the House                                                               
Transportation Standing  Committee meeting was adjourned  at 2:09                                                               
p.m.                                                                                                                            

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